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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:54 am 
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marcm wrote:
Bob Pearson wrote:
I had a long chat with Ken on Monday on this and related subjects, and he made a very valid point regarding allowing newer cars into the URS Series. He said, and he is correct, that there isn't a shortage of cars, there isn't even a shortage of owners, there is a shortage of owners who are prepared to race the cars, in some cases, at all, in others more than a couple of rounds.
This situation all ties into the question of where are we hoping to go with the formula, once that has been established then all efforts must be thrown at that route. To me, there are only two alternatives, BARC as a stand alone formula and HSCC with the Historic FF2000's. Running with anything else is damaging our chances of survival, doing the odd race with Mono, CF3 or DBT then thinking that used this months supply of racing money and I can't do the meeting of the chosen route is simply hammering another nail into the coffin of this series and contributing to a further fall in the value of our cars.
So what will be the chosen route? The idea of being with what used to be the B class of URS again is attractive, but let's be realistic, why would they want us, they don't need us, they aren't short of entries, they may have experienced a drop, but Alan M is more than dynamic enough to counter that over a period of time. They left us for a reason when we parted ways some years ago, and I'm sure that reason is still valid to them. It leaves the BARC route as the obvious and maybe only choice. It is the only route which, if we focus our efforts and money, can give us a stand alone formula.
It will mean Alan M being asked to not include us in the GP circuit Brands and Silverstone events, which is a shame, and I am the first to admit I will miss them, but surely......the future of the series and its chances of return to a formula must be seen as more important than our enjoyment on a couple of single days.
I know Ken doesn't read this forum, so I will e mail this tirade to him, and offer my support with a meeting with BARC, which, as a pair we have done in the past. Given how this year has gone, it may be debatable whether the BARC will want us next year, our strongest point is that, as far as I know they only have one single seater formula left at the moment, which will help our position, although some kind of a new plan on our part will be needed.
In summary, and I apologize to Steve Connor, but I have known him for years and I'm sure he understands my logic, anyone who runs in Mono, CF3 or DBT in preference to the chosen route ( be it begging to the HSCC or URS with BARC) is cutting all our throats including their own. Harsh words I'm afraid, but I think we are well past the point of tarting up a web-site or producing spread sheets, something positive must take place or we are finished.



I agree entirely with most of what you say here Bob. In particular that once we've established the best direction for the formula then all efforts should be thrown at that route. I'll support any plan that gives a future of good close racing for the cars. I'd also hate to see the cars spread across several unrelated series.

A couple of questions however:

Are we certain that rejoining the HSCC FF2000 cars is closed off to us? Perhaps the reasons that split the series originally can be resolved in a mutually beneficial way? Perhaps it is unrealistic, but it has to be worth exploring alongside the other options.

Either way, would it be necessary to throw out the concept of a combined event once or twice a year? Plenty of different series successfully come together for blue riband events to ensure big and economically viable grids. I don't think it damages either series to do that. After all, previously the HSCC cars had to combine with CF3 to race on Silverstone GP and URS simply didn't race on the GP circuits. Win, win and it raises the profile of FF2000 cars generally.

It's good to hear though that behind the scenes there are plenty of people keen and willing to take action to ensure we are all out racing next year.


My view on your questions Marc is:

I have no definite knowledge of how an attempt to unite the URS with the HSCC FF2000's would work out. What I wrote is the simply the product of applying logic to the situation. It would have to be done formally by Ken, Alan and probably someone else from the HSCC.
The problem with the combined events are they are held on really attractive circuits, and some drivers, inevitably will do them in preference to entering for events which are in our main thrust for rebuilding the formula. If drivers have enough cash and time to do all BARC events ( or whatever the main thrust is) plus the GP circuits HSCC events then it wouldn't matter. But, inevitably there will be those who will choose the GP circuit events in preference to a BARC event, and so another nail is driven in. Hence, I believe it is best if they are not even offered to us.


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:04 pm 
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How about trying something really radical? Reduce the number of URS meetings to just 5 next year. Keep the Silverstone GP and Brands GP races with us and see if the BARC can offer 3 really good quality meetings for the others. I know Bob and Ian are not particularly bothered about the profile of the meetings at which they race but many people are. I have recently conducted a survey of the HFF2K drivers to get an idea of people's preferences for the 2016 calendar. Many drivers said that the quality of the meetings was important to them - I'm sure that's true for most URS drivers as well.

Having fewer meetings would focus people's minds and reduce the tendency to pick and choose - with just 5 meetings I think many people would consider taking in the whole season. I'm not suggesting this as a long-term solution, just as a platform on which to rebuild for the future.

Just to clear up any misapprehensions, Historic FF2000 came about because cars from the early days of FF2000 had nowhere to race as "Class A" anywhere and were therefore unlikely to win any races overall. The idea was discussed with Ken and he supported it - he even competed in the inaugural race. There was no "split" as such, drivers with older cars just tended to move to the Historic series for whatever reason.

WDYT?


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:25 pm 
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I don't think the BARC run high profile meetings, except for those that we would never get a chance to join in with even if we had a good grid. The shortcoming in your argument Alan, is that if BARC ran 5 meetings and we had your high profile events on offer, inevitably there would be those who would do 3 BARC events plus yours, so defeating the object of trying to throw all our weight behind a single course, hopefully back to formula status. Just to pick up on your point, Ian and I will race just about anywhere anytime, but we did both really enjoy Brands and Silverstone. But, and I think he would agree with me, if missing those two events is the price to pay for eventually getting URS on it's own feet again then it must be paid.
As it happens, we only had 3 BARC events this year, even less than you proposed, the remainder are yours and propping up CF3.


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:28 pm 
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Circuits have a high importance to me, havent done the silverstone gp or brands gp so would enter races with the circuits I want to race on, it woukdnt force ppl into entering races they would just choose clubs which had events which suited them surely, plus im old fashioned ff racing have standing starts


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:48 pm 
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Well, we certainly agree about one thing Chris, and I'm sure you know which bit that is! But.................I can't see how we can expect the formula to stay alive if we are going to race with other clubs in preference to whichever club is running it. As I said to Alan Morgan, I loved Brands GP and Silverstone GP, but we have to ask ourselves whether the pleasure of a particular day's racing with a different club( if it means that we miss an event with the main club) is sensible when that action drives another nail into the Classic FF2000 coffin. If we had grids big enough to maintain our Championship status then Yep, lets do Brands GP and Silverstone GP, I'd be there for sure, but as we are?? There are many guys who cannot do all the events if they were with BARC, if those same guys do some HSCC events, then they do even less BARC events, and the eventual collapse of our series and, with it, the car values comes one step closer.


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:20 pm 
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Perhaps I'm missing something here but I'm not sure why 3 BARC events + 2 combined with Historic FF2000 would be any less beneficial to reviving the fortunes of the series than running 5 with BARC?

From the point of view of an existing or new driver you have a series where you can race your car at five race meetings. It's more or less irrelevant to the driver who are the club that run the meeting as long as the races are part of the series/championship calendar.

If instead you had 5 BARC rounds, you lose what is part of the attraction to URS currently - the chance to race with a big grid of FF2000 cars on the GP circuits. Just because you take away those races doesn't guarantee that they'll do the BARC events.

Instead I'd say the opposite is more likely true - you might get some people who only initially turn up for those GP circuit events who wouldn't do anything at all otherwise. That's our chance to convince them that it's a great series and they should join us in the other rounds too. Once you've gone to the effort of preparing your car for one round, it's a much smaller step to come out for another.
The same might apply for new drivers - the initial attraction may have been seeing us race at those meetings. Lets face it - anyone interested in racing a 30+ year old racing car is most likely to go to a big historic meeting to see what's available. We're very anonymous in a lot of the BARC meetings. Think of it as the URS shop window!

If we want URS to become a stand alone championship again, first we need to get more cars out by offering them what they want, then we can look at cutting the cord if that's the best thing. The only scenario I can see where it wouldn't work to race in the HSCC GP events is if URS was to change radically and opened up to non FF2000 cars.

Is there something that I'm not taking into account Bob?


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:33 pm 
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Yes Marc, I think you are missing the point. A URS series does not run at the HSCC, the BARC do not sit back thinking the series is strong because a large number of cars ran at the HSCC rounds. If we are going to have a strong series, hopefully returning to a championship again then each race with the organising club, not clubs, needs to be strong. If we have lost 5 entries say from a Snetterton round with BARC because they spent their monthly allowance doing an HSCC round then the series has been damaged for the Snetterton round, and in the eyes of the organising club is that much weaker.


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Bob Pearson wrote:
Yes Marc, I think you are missing the point. A URS series does not run at the HSCC, the BARC do not sit back thinking the series is strong because a large number of cars ran at the HSCC rounds. If we are going to have a strong series, hopefully returning to a championship again then each race with the organising club, not clubs, needs to be strong. If we have lost 5 entries say from a Snetterton round with BARC because they spent their monthly allowance doing an HSCC round then the series has been damaged for the Snetterton round, and in the eyes of the organising club is that much weaker.


As mentioned above though, just excluding the HSCC rounds doesn't address the problem. With no changes you just end up with 5 BARC rounds with few cars, and no chance to utilise the halo effect of the GP races. We lost championship status before the combined rounds existed. It sounds short sighted of BARC not to consider the bigger picture in this respect as part of a plan to rebuild grids.

Of course if the series under BARC changed significantly then there might be a case for ending the tie up with the HSCC cars, but none of the current suggestions I've seen seem to fit into this category. I'm open to ideas though.

If BARC can't offer what the series needs to grow then are there alternatives? For example would the HSCC run a classic FF2000 series/championship, initially with combined grids alongside CF3 and Historic FF2000 with a view to going alone on the shorter circuits when numbers pick up?


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:13 pm 
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Hold on Marc, it's no good trying to blame BARC or anyone else for the predicament we are in, it's all our own doing. We needed an average of 16 cars per race to keep our championship and we couldn't do it, so we are were we are.
I believe we need something to sell the formula, the biggest seller I have found in the past is the strength of a formula. Although I like the idea of the GP circuit runs, we can't expect to be successful in recruiting new drivers if we are selling a formula that simply props up another formula.
I still see it as a simple choice, do we let it fail, or do we make more effort to get the current car owners to race with BARC ( or whoever will take us). Turning our back on HSCC's offers of occasional hospitality is simply part of the ways to increase grid numbers at the BARC ( or whoever's) events.


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 Post subject: Re: Eligible cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Lets not forget that these cars are perfect for taller/bigger drivers, a valid selling point as 6ft plus is the norm these days


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